Sweat the Details with Skylar Olsen of Climate Check

Skylar Olsen of Climate Check

(Also, it’s our 50th Episode!)

Skylar Olsen, Principal Economist at Climate Check, joined us this week. We delve into what Climate Check is, and how they seek to make this important data accessible to all consumers and real estate professionals. We discuss how climate change will affect buyers’ choices about where they live, and how we are going to have to make our homes and areas resilient to the changes brought by massive changes in our climate.

 

Skylar Olsen of Climate Check

You can listen to this podcast here, and subscribe to the podcast here.

Highlights:

  • What is Climate Check?
  • What are the data sources?
  • FEMA is looking at now; Climate Check are looking at now + future
  • Evaluating risk factors
  • Storm risk; extreme weather risks increasing
  • An example: Western, PA has high risk for extreme storms
  • Washington County, PA
    • Flood risk of 87; what does that mean?
  • Residential vs. commercial risk awareness
  • What’s more impactful for people making decisions—flood or fire?
  • How to make the property more resilient. (Note: If you missed the last episode, Urban design, Climate change, equity, and resilience, that’s a great episode, too)

 


Transcript:

Jim:
This is Jim Duncan with Nest Realty and Sweat the Details. Skylar Olsen joined us this week. She is the Principal Economist at ClimateCheck, a new site that helps consumers and realtors understand risks associated with climate change and how those risks will affect real estate on a property by property basis.

This was an eye opening conversation ranging from the impact that climate change will have on how and where people live to, how quickly these changes may affect real estate markets more than they already have. Hope you enjoy the conversation.

Jim:
Hey, this is Jim Duncan with Nest Realty and Sweat the Details. I’m here with my partner, Keith Davis, and Skylar Olsen, the economist at ClimateCheck. So we’re going to talk a little about climate today, how it’s impacting residential property and how this tech can be used for consumers, realtors and anybody in the industry. So, Skylar, if you don’t mind, tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.

Skylar:
Yeah, so let’s see. So I’m an economist at ClimateCheck. So ClimateCheck is a new company. We launched as early as two weeks ago, trying to bring climate risk information literally to your doorstep. Climate science has been evolving. We’ve been growing in our understanding about what the impacts are, where they’ll be, who will be most affected, but that information is really hard to access. It’s either overly scientific or it’s trapped in ivory towers and government databases, and in some cases in large institutions that can pay consultants to figure out what the risk is for their full portfolio of homes.

Skylar:
So we’re trying to surface this kinds of information at the property level for everyday people. So climatecheck.com, you type in your address, you type in your friend’s address, you type in the White House, and you can figure out five different risks that are related to climate change. So those are things like your temperature risk, storm risk, wildfires, flood, and drought.

Jim:
So where are these data sources coming from? Because, from a particular perspective, I’ve looked at the FEMA websites and locality the flood zone risks there, but how has this data more accurate for the consumer?

Skylar:
Yeah, absolutely. So FEMA is, well, let’s put it this way. So when we look at your flood risk, one of the ways that we think about it is what’s the probability that you’ll have a flood at your property before 2020? We also present to you how deep, on average, that kind of flood is expected to be. FEMA is really just looking at the hundred year flood right now. So what is your probability of having a significant flood at your doorstep? Of a flood that’s so extreme, it’ll happen every 100 years, right?

Skylar:
In the future, because of climate change, those kinds of floods will be more likely, but it’s not just these extreme floods that we’re looking at. We’re also looking at more regular flooding due to say high tide with sea level rise. We’re also looking at inland flooding. So those are generally referred to as fluvial floods, wen so much water falls from the sky, you’ll have flooding there as well.

Skylar:
Now FEMA captures some of that, but again, it’s just now. Climate change is going to make these extreme weather events, both hurricanes, or inland, you don’t need a hurricane to have extreme, extreme precipitation, will make this kinds of flooding much more likely. Climate change, we talk a lot about average temperature increases and that’s probably the most readily understood aspect of climate change, but a big part of what climate change is going to bring is really unpredictability, incredible variance. The hottest of days, the coldest of winters, the heaviest, more extreme precipitation proceeded by, or maybe followed by, long periods of drought, right? So it’s the extremes that are going to become much more likely.

Keith:
So for the average homeowner, for the average commercial property owner, for anyone dealing with risk management, we’re used to checking flood damage, flood risk. We certainly all think about fire risk and this summer has heightened the understanding of the danger of that, and not just in the areas that we typically think of as being fire areas.

Keith:
The other risk factors you’re bringing, like storm risk. It’s not just talking about people on the coast who look at storm surge and look at hurricanes. You’re talking about people three, four hours inland that are having a heightened risk from these storms, and probably, I mean, I only say three or four hours just because I looked at a few addresses. It may well be throughout the entire country, this is [crosstalk 00:04:54]. What should people be thinking about these different risks? How do you gauge what one risk is greater than the other? Or what should homeowners be thinking about?

Skylar:
Yeah, well, each one we’re thinking about it a little bit differently. So let’s take storm, for example. So two of the risks that we have on our list, something like wildfire or flooding, that’s absolutely talking about catastrophic, possible damage to your property, right?

Skylar:
When we’re talking about storm risk, this is separate from flood. We’re talking about storm risk. What’s underlying this risk data is how many extreme precipitation events you might expect. So like, let’s talk Western Pennsylvania is actually one of the places that has some of the highest risk scores for storms. This is a lot of precipitation falling at once, right? That could mean some flash flooding or erosion happening around your property. You may have to install better storm drains or French drains in order to handle that runoff.

Skylar:
But it could also be a snowmageddon kind of event, right? If it’s an extreme precipitation event, in the middle of winter, this is now a period of time where you’re shoveling your driveway way more, right? You’re going to have to do that far more often. There’s probably likely going to be more periods of time where you’ll be stuck at home because of extreme snow. So the storm risk, the way that we create that is actually relative to your current experience, right? So whatever defines an extreme weather event historically in your area, so let’s say an extreme weather event, for example, let’s pull out an example here-

Keith:
So you’re bringing up Western Pennsylvania. So you’re saying that a high number there doesn’t just mean you live in an area with lake-effect snow, you’re saying that the lake-effect snow is going to be worse moving forward than the lake-effect snow that’s happened in the past. That what [crosstalk 00:06:53], that’s a 50?

Skylar:
Sure. So let’s talk about Washington County, Pennsylvania, which has a flood risk of 87, right? Which is pretty high on our list that ranges from zero to 100. Currently, you would have around, if I just look at current climatology in the area, not … let’s talk about 2050 in a second. But currently, you would expect 10 days where there was more than an inch and a half of rain over a period of two days, right? Just 10 times. 10 events like that a year.

Skylar:
Now after climate change, because it’s the variability, it’s the extreme events that are going to become more likely, they’re going to be 27 extreme weather events where rain is falling or snow is falling over a 1.5 inches over two days, there’s going to be 27 extreme weather events by the year 2050.

Keith:
Annually?

Skylar:
Yeah. But that’s a similar thing, right? If you think about, what’s going to be the stress on your area? There are areas in the Blue Ridge Mountains that actually have a pretty low temperature threshold of what we define as extreme heat, right? In the Blue Ridge Mountains, you’re at higher elevation, it’s a little bit cooler on average, but you’re going to have more days that, relative to historical periods, more days that will be considered extreme to your current infrastructure, right?

Skylar:
So let’s say extreme temperature threshold in the Blue Ridge Mountains is around 85 degrees. That’s nothing for someone in Phoenix, right? They’d laugh at you. But people in that area don’t necessarily have air conditioning. So it’s going to put a strain on your infrastructure, on the housing in the area that’s not necessarily built for temperatures above that level. So we define for things like temperature and storm, both of those are defined on what’s normal for your area and then projecting into the future, how many more times are you going to experience what is currently considered extreme?

Keith:
Well, that’s also huge in … You know, in Virginia farming is still a large part of our economy, specifically, in our neighborhood, in terms of Charlottesville, Albemarle County wine is a big thing. So I would see what you’re talking about changes dramatically what businesses can even exist or think that they’re going to exist in 30 years.

Skylar:
Right, right. Or what you have to put in place to protect those things. Right?

Keith:
Right.

Skylar:
Right. Yeah.

Jim:
So how does a realtor use this data? I mean, I think that when you’re looking at it from a buy-side perspective, having the buyer understand the risk in five, 10 and 15 years, and I think also the seller, how do they establish that value risk, if you will? And the third part of the question is going to be, I was talking to my wife about this before we started, is this something that has to be disclosed?

Skylar:
Yeah, yeah.

Jim:
I think it’s the answer to the disclosure is no, not yet. But if the buyer knows that the house is ‘worth’ 500 today, worth in air quotes, then you look at a storm score of 96 in 10 years. I mean, I think a reasonable person may look at that and say, “Well, that’s not worth 500 anymore.”

Skylar:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, so there’s a difference definitely between have to and should, and as much as we have these five different risks, different risks will impact the value of your home differently. Like flood is very clear. If you have a high probability of flood, you’re talking property damage without some serious intervention, I mean, that’s going to impact the value of your home, if 10 years down the line a flood becomes very likely, very often around your property.

Skylar:
If it’s something like storm, or heat, when we think about those risk measures, it’s important to take a big step back and consider that there are areas in this country where it will be hard not to experience some form of risk or another. So it’ll eventually be kind of relative in terms of whether or not it will impact your home value. So for example, if we want to think about central Virginia, you’re pretty low on the other risk factors. So things like flooding, things like … Well, wildfire is really a Western States problem.

Keith:
I got a zero for my house for wildfire. So I felt pretty good about that.

Skylar:
Yeah. Actually the reason why that is, well, I don’t know if this is going to be interesting to other people, but deciduous trees hold a lot more moisture in them. So even though, on the East coast, you have much more lightening strikes, it’s much less likely to lead to a wildfire. The conifer forests on the West coast, they tend to be much drier. So fewer lightning strikes, but more likely to have fire.

Skylar:
Anyway, anyway, anyway, so you can have a place like central Virginia that has a very higher storm risk and temperature risk, according to the way we’re measuring it, which is how relative to your current norms that’s someone actually might be much more willing to accept, right?

Keith:
Let’s talk about the temperature one because certainly within climate change, I mean, global warming is the piece we look at. Now, when we talk about global warming, we’re talking about very modest increases that have enormous impact. But how are you guys … I mean, what type of shift are you referring to that might have a five point movement in your 100 point score? I mean, I’m trying to remember what ours was in central Virginia, a 60. So what does that really relating to expectations over the next 30 years?

Skylar:
Yeah. It’s about how often do you have these extreme heat days? So in central Virginia, I think what makes you have an extreme heat day is a temperature of 95 degrees. I think 94 and a half degrees in central Virginia. That defines an extreme heat day. We measure what makes an extreme heat day off of historical patterns, right? What did we observe in the past? So if we pull up something like that, currently you would expect to have 21 days in some counties in this area that are over 94 degrees. Due to climate change, and this heightened variability, the extreme events become more likely, that number of days, the number of extreme heat days will double.

Skylar:
So if you think about what that does is maybe before you could get away without air conditioning, or maybe you would only turn on your air conditioning for one month, right? In the future, you might want to consider, say, as an agent, you might want to suggest to this new buyer of an older home, “Hey, you, within the next 10 years, you’re going to have to put in new windows, you’re going to have to possibly install more insulation because the number of extreme heat will increase.”

Skylar:
So on average, the average temperature, it’s a tiny increase, like you said. Global warming, the average temperature, it’s a small increase, but it’s a big deal. The way it comes a big deal to your lifestyle, is actually on the tail. It’s the extreme event. Now there are places right that have similar scores to this temperature risk, but have much higher heat thresholds.

Skylar:
Think of a place like Phoenix, our temperature risk isn’t that much higher on the scale. But the problem is that their threshold they’re very used to it, right? Their threshold is 110 degrees. Currently in Phoenix, 21 days over 110 degrees. That’s incredible to me.

Keith:
I can’t fathom that.

Skylar:
Yeah, I can’t even. But Phoenix is one of the fastest growing metropolitan areas. So clearly, lots of people are willing to accept that, right? So [crosstalk 00:14:57] air conditioning. The problem comes when global warming will bring 46 days over 110 degrees. Now will people still accept Phoenix?

Jim:
That’s going to have a cascading effect on the country. I mean, just from a grid perspective, and the infrastructure, once you have more air conditioners being added to the grid, that’s going to put place more weight on that grid. Then we need to make sure that we’re building with enough energy sources to provide and convey that power.

Skylar:
Absolutely, absolutely. Right now in California, they turn off the grid. When a lot of people start using a significant amount of air conditioning, they have to shut it down in waves because the grid can’t handle it.

Jim:
So where do you see the growth for ClimateCheck coming? Is it going to be from consumers, do you think who are going to be pushing it to the realtor saying, “Hey, I looked and the storm score for this house is 93. Are you kidding me? You’re advising me to buy this house?” Or is it going to be the realtors that are going to be driving it? Or is it going to be from other sources that are going to be putting it out there as your goal, I assume, is to have it as a widget that people use, a data source people use when they’re making decisions?

Skylar:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when we were first building this product, we did a big survey of home buyers and asked them whether or not they wanted or would use this information to impact their home buying decisions. It was a huge majority of people that said that they would. 94% of our sample of 500 said that using this kind of information would be important.

Skylar:
Most of them said that they would use that data to simply understand their risk and compare it between different areas. A smaller share, but not by too much smaller, said it would be about preparing for future risk. So it wouldn’t really disqualify an area, but you would recognize the things that you would have to do to make this place resilient into the future for yourself or your family, or how would you protect your property?

Skylar:
So when we think about our future growth, we think people are going to start demanding this information, they’re going to start expecting to know it before they buy a home. Certainly, when it comes to flood, certainly, certainly when it comes to flood, and certainly when it comes to wildfire.

Skylar:
Those other numbers, what we kind of think, things like temperature risk, and storm risk, they definitely will impact what you might want to do to your property to preserve your lifestyle forward. I think that ends up being pretty informative about where you might want to live or what temperatures you might be willing to accept or snowmageddons or whatever else. But yeah, we definitely think that there’s a … Well, I don’t think it, I know that there’s a growing understanding that climate change is going to impact our risk, but also our lifestyles into the future and people are going to start expecting to know in due diligence before they buy a property.

Keith:
So Skylar, you previously were employed by another real estate company that had quite the economic battalion of people, right? Much of what Zillow is known for, there’s estimates, their predictive evaluation of property. So when you’re looking at climate change and let’s focus on flood for a minute. As we were talking earlier, should we be disclosing this as a seller, or as a seller’s agent, should we be doing it? Or a buyer’s agent, should we be responsible for identifying this type of information? If I evaluate a property that is not in a flood zone, is at flood risk through ClimateCheck data-

Skylar:
No, no, no, FEMA flood zone. Right.

Keith:
Correct. Now, it’s not been identified by the US government as a flood risk, is not required to have flood insurance, but yet still within what you’re finding as predictive values is actually at a substantial risk, or at least at moderate, middle risk. How should agents and how should buyers begin looking at the actual valuation of that property? Like obviously it makes a difference. It’s a huge difference, but the question is, as Jim and I were talking before we got on the call, if you tell me that my house is going to get blown over by a storm surge, it doesn’t mean I don’t want the house. I’m just willing to pay a whole lot less for it. So when is there going to be enough economic data to show what that effect really is for the valuation of properties? Is it there yet?

Skylar:
Yeah. It’s interesting. So this is one of the big question areas that’s still open for research. A lot of us economists are trying to figure out what those impacts are. So there’s been a lot of recent studies that have focused on sea level rise and flooding, and storm surge and flooding. Those are the ones that I think were, I don’t know, maybe the science got there first, or it was more provocative so we did our analysis there first.

Skylar:
I did one at Zillow. We went there to see how many homes are going to be underwater and to think about what those impacts are. Now, some really interesting results came out of those early studies. Remember these early studies were done at a time when not everyone was on board, necessarily, with the fact that climate change was progressing, and real and just would come and greater floods.

Skylar:
So what they found in some of those earlier studies was that for commercial properties, property value absolutely affected. Commercial properties, absolutely affected. These are people that make the decisions with the numbers, they get information about risk, their consultants look at future sea level rise and what’s going to happen on that coastline.

Skylar:
If we’re talking about residential property, in areas where climate change wasn’t as covered on the news, in areas where the population was much more conservative and maybe wasn’t internalizing a lot of the sentiment towards climate change being absolutely real, you didn’t see the impact on property values, but you did see the impact on property values in more liberal areas where it was understood that sea level rise would begin to impact these properties.

Skylar:
Now that’s interesting because what that tells me is that as we start to understand the risks, we will start to see more and more property impacts. The market has to know about it, right? It has to know about it and be impacted by it. So you see it, if there’s already flooding in areas, conservative or liberal, it doesn’t matter. In places in Miami, you know, right? It’s already happening. You can make that measurement and those analysis, billions and billions of dollars of property value has been harvested away by the fact that that flooding is now much more common in Florida.

Skylar:
But I think in terms of knowing the actual impact, because you have two things going on, you have the risk itself that’s threatening properties, and then you have the salience around the fact that the risk is real, and that’s when you start to see the home value trends, that’s when you start to see the impact to home values. People are more and more waking up. They’re waking up to the fact that climate change is real, that it’s going to intensely impact a lot of areas to the form of extreme property damage.

Skylar:
So what it’ll do to the home values over time will start coming up more and more people understand the real risks. But the information doesn’t stop the underlying risks from being there, it’s just whether or not people can respond and make decisions-

Keith:
So let me ask you, and maybe this is an East coast/West coast question, which has more effect on the public acceptance of climate change as a reality, the heavy hurricane seasons that we see in the Atlantic or the forest fires all over the West coast? Or is that really dependent on which side you live on?

Skylar:
Yeah, I think it’s depending on which side you live on, but I think the forest fires have just, I think … I mean, it’s a conflagration, you know what I mean? It’s a stark and dramatic and horrifying reality for California and Oregon and Washington. I think the huge scale, and just the sheer millions of acres burned is a startling wake-up call.

Skylar:
I don’t know, honestly, sometimes I am surprised for example, that Sandy, which, what 2012? Didn’t have as much of an impact on say rebuilding, in New Jersey. I’m shocked by that, right? I mean, 2% of homes in coastal New Jersey counties were built after 2014. We’re rebuilding in areas that were damaged by Hurricane Sandy and that are expected to be underwater in a relatively short period of time, and we’re building longterm housing in those places.

Skylar:
So it’s funny, it’s hard to get into the American psyche and know what exactly it was that made more and more people accept climate change. But things like the recent snow on the East coast that is attributed to climate change, these kind of odd, bizarre, extreme weather events are going to become much more likely. And I think as it piles up, we start to get it.

Jim:
So, I mean, from a predictive perspective because you’re the one with the data and the analysis and the math, where do you, from an economist’s perspective, is there a prediction you can make that says, “In three years, the climate change data will be at a critical mass of people saying, “I don’t want to …”” The rebuilding is a completely different conversation about whether they should, or could, or will rebuild. That’s a completely different threshold.

Jim:
But I think it’s, will people, if they say, just to pick on New Jersey, if they say that part of the New Jersey is going from an 80 to a 87 storm risk, will more people will evaluate that as a risk they don’t want to undertake, and will that have an impact on that region’s economy?

Skylar:
Yeah. I think one of the things that’s tricky about climate change and thinking about like, how long will it have to take, or what is the evidence that’s going to happen? Is that the change to the risks right now is a more mild slope, right? And as we get further along in the process, things are going to start changing much more rapidly. So then you start to really get the ramp up as you get these feedback loops in terms of what that impact actually is.

Skylar:
So if I think about, let’s see, what is the thing? Yeah, what is it going to take? Yeah, that’s a really interesting question to ask that, in terms of what is it going to take to make it stark. It’s gradual right now, and then the impact to our lifestyles is going to start speeding up.

Skylar:
I think that’s one of the horrifying elements of people who study the clients is that if we don’t get it now, we’re not going to be able to avoid that fast ramp up, and that’s why we want to provide that information now, now, now, so that people are making the decisions to mitigate that risk. Right now, if you only … Let’s see, what, the average homeowner lives in the home for 10 years, it used to be 14, it gets lower, and lower and lower as we have to move more often.

Skylar:
So if I was buying a home in an area that was expected to where the ramp up will increase later, right? I might be okay, I get to live by the coast. I’m in this beautiful area. It could be risky later, but right now, it provides me the lifestyle that I like. Now, the problem is I’m going to sell that home in 10 years and the person that buys it from me is going to experience the risk. That’s [crosstalk 00:27:19].

Keith:
This is where the cynic in me says the risk is not to the homeowner who is buying or building, the risk is not the risk of loss. The risk is that someone will not insure it in the future. If I knew, as I do right now, that I can subscribe to federal flood programs and they will continue to rebuild my property, there’s no risk, it’s an expensive policy to maintain, but there really is no risk that my home is going to go away permanently.

Keith:
So the question is, at what point do we look at FEMA and say, “Yeah, your property is clearly a risk to flooding. You’re along the riverbanks of XYZ River, or you’re along the coast and we’re not going to insure within 15 miles. Yes, we’re going to insure it, and if it’s destroyed, we’re going to pay it off, but it will never be insured again. You’re going to have to build somewhere else that’s in a lower risk zone.” Is it public policy like that, that’s going to change the way people think about buying a $5 million property on an island? Right? I mean-

Skylar:
Yeah. I mean, the Obama administration already passed those kinds of changes to the federal flood insurance program that made it so that you couldn’t rebuild as readily in some places. Now they might not have gone as far to really mitigate those future risks, but those changes start happening. If you think about Florida, Florida is mostly self-insured at this point, that insurance wouldn’t really be available for most homeowners at all unless Florida stepped in and insured homeowners and California might end up going that way as well.

Skylar:
Right now, California passed a law that they can’t cancel someone’s insurance policy until December of this year, but unless that’s extended, what’s going to happen in December? A lot of those places that are in areas that are expected to burn again, and insurance is absolutely one of the lenses to look at how do we stop continued property loss and damage?

Jim:
Well, I mean, that’s one of the things I think of is, when you look at the longevity of this, and the planning for it, insurance companies have been planning for it for decades. The US Army and military have been planning for this for decades, so I think that getting something like this to the consumer, if you will, where, to be perfectly honest, it’s a pretty simple display of data that makes it more approachable, if you will, to people to say, “Oh, well, that’s red, that’s bad.”

Jim:
But I think that if we’re … We’re simple people. But I think if you get to that point of understanding the data of how it’s going to impact you, I think they could have an impact on people understanding what climate change is going to do to them because humans look at what’s in their backyard and not anywhere else. So this is something that affects their backyards directly.

Skylar:
Yeah. Well, and as someone who, I guess, as an economist who thinks a lot about climate change problems, not just locally, but at scale, I think that’s the answer to getting some of these changes happening with policy, right? Is bringing the risk locally. It’s really hard, I think, and pretty unreasonable to ask, say your average househusband, because that’s what I have. So I like to flip the script.

Skylar:
So ask an average house partner, in order to care about, say dolphins, or icebergs, or something so far away, when you’re hounded by your four-year-old every day or when you’re struggling to go through COVID. But if you can bring the risks closer to home, literally like, how’s it going to impact you and your lifestyle? That’s when you start to see movement on this kind of change.

Keith:
So Skylar, we’re going a little bit long, but I want to give you a shot on this. Where does ClimateCheck go in the next five years? So right now you’ve got this, a very, very graceful, easy app for home owners and buyers and sellers to use. Where do you see your product? Where do you see the company headed? What are the next steps and outlets for your information?

Skylar:
Yeah. Yeah. I think probably the most obvious next step, in many ways, is to help any entity that has a portfolio of homes understand their portfolio risk. So right now you can go on climatecheck.com and you type in your property, that works great for a home buyer, where you’re considering one or maybe five properties at a time across your space. But in terms of providing that economic analysis and risk information for more homes. So there you’re thinking banks, insurers, REITs, anyone that really needs a wider view across a portfolio, that’s what we’re actively pursuing.

Skylar:
But if we’re talking five years out and people are starting to experience the impact of climate change, so greater heat, heavier precipitation, people are going to need to invest in resiliency at their homes, even if you want to live there over the longterm. So insulation, new storm windows, sewer and drains, and solar panels for mitigation.

Skylar:
How can we make these communities more resilient by connecting home buyers and home owners and even home sellers, if that’s something you have to do in order to make your property more viable on the market, to resiliency providers. So home service. So lead gen and make more resilient communities because there’s a reason why people live in the woods in California. There’s a reason why people live in Phoenix, Arizona. There’s a reason why people want to live on the coast in Florida, right? So what can we do to maintain at least the lifestyles that’s reasonable to enjoy.

Keith:
All right, Skylar, so I love that thought, and I think especially as you’ve said, the commercial purchasers have always been forefront of identifying risk and looking at it from a numerical standpoint, it’s very hard to get a home buyer to look at anything other than their gut instinct and the love and the passion and the excitement that comes around home buying. But certainly for the portfolio owner, I see it, I mean, that makes complete sense in terms of how that all comes together.

Keith:
But this is a Sweat the Details, and I’d love to just get your thought on what that one detail is that you sweat? What’s the one piece that keeps you up at night that you just think we need to focus on and stay completely on top of?

Skylar:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I absolutely sweat this problem at scale. If we can’t get more people to recognize the coming risk, that it’s serious and that it’s going to impact the livelihood of my children. I worry a lot for us. I think that’s why I joined a company like ClimateCheck. That’s trying to bring risk information to everyday people because everyday people are the voters and everyday people are the ones that are going to make the decisions that drive change.

Skylar:
So I sweat that if we can’t get more people at scale to recognize these problems, to understand that they’re real and that they’re coming and it’s going to get worse and that we have a limited amount of time to act and that act needs to be at scale. I just talked a lot about the resiliency measures that an individual householder should be able to do or get information about so that they go and pursue. But in terms of reversing the worst impacts of climate change, that needs to come as a systematic change. A systematic change.

Jim:
Well, scholar, thank you.

Skylar:
All right. That was a real sweaty one. It’s real sweaty in my [crosstalk 00:35:26].

Jim:
Well, you know, if climate change sticks around, this be sweater sweatier for all of us. Thank you so much. I think this is … It’s not a small topic. It’s something that I think does impact all of us on a daily basis, weekly, monthly. I think to your point, it’s going to affect our kids and our grandkids, and everybody for generations. So thank you for the work that you’re doing with ClimateCheck and I really appreciate you making the time for us.

Skylar:
Well, thank you so much for having me.

Keith:
Skylar, it’s been great. I appreciate the time.

Skylar:
Yeah, take care.

Jim:
Thanks.

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